Carthage Jail
September 20, 2007
Joseph and Hyrum Smith were murdered in a gunfight in the late afternoon of June 27, 1844. This drawing depicts the hours immediately before that gunfight, which Joseph, Hyrum, John Taylor, and Willard Richards spent smoking, drinking, and singing to lighten their mood.
“Before the jailor came in, his boy brought in some water, and said the guard wanted some wine. Joseph [Smith] gave Dr. Richards two dollars to give the guard; but the guard said one was enough, and would take no more.
“The guard immediately sent for a bottle of wine, pipes, and two small papers of tobacco; and one of the guards brought them into the jail soon after the jailor went out. Dr. Richards uncorked the bottle, and presented a glass to Joseph, who tasted, as brother and the Doctor, and the bottle was then given to the guard, who turned to go out.”
(History of the Church, Vol. 6, page 616)
“Sometime after dinner we sent for some wine. It has been reported by some that this was taken as a sacrament. It was no such thing; our spirits were generally dull and heavy, and it was sent for to revive us. I think it was Captain Jones who went after it, but they would not suffer him to return. I believe we all drank of the wine, and gave some to one or two of the prison guards. We all of us felt unusually dull and languid, with a remarkable depression of spirits. In consonance with those feelings I sang a song, that had lately been introduced into Nauvoo, entitled, ‘A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief’, etc.”
(John Taylor, as quoted in History of the Church, Vol. 7, page 101)
Also relevant to this image is the fact that Joseph and Hyrum each had a pistol, despite being incarcerated. They both used their guns to defend themselves in the attack.
“[As the attack began,] Joseph, Hyrum, and Elder Taylor had their coats off. Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his single barrel, Taylor for Markham’s large hickory cane, and Dr. Richards for Taylor’s cane. All sprang against the door, the balls whistled up the stairway, and in an instant one came through the door…
“Hyrum was retreating back in front of the door and snapped his pistol, when a ball struck him in the left side of his nose, and he fell on his back on the floor saying, ‘I am a dead man!’”
(History of the Church, Vol. 6, page 616)
“I shall never forget the deep feeling of sympathy and regard manifested in the countenance of Brother Joseph as he drew nigh to Hyrum, and, leaning over him, exclaimed, `Oh! my poor, dear brother Hyrum!’ He, however, instantly arose, and with a firm, quick step, and a determined expression of countenance, approached the door, and pulling the six-shooter left by Brother Wheelock from his pocket, opened the door slightly, and snapped the pistol six successive times; only three of the barrels, however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died…”
(John Taylor, as quoted in History of the Church, Vol. 7, pages 101-2)
Finally, this image reflects the fact that Joseph Smith (as well as Hyrum and John Taylor) did not wear temple garments under his clothes while in Carthage Jail. The reason for this choice was debated by some of the highest authorities of the Church in the aftermath of the murders, as reflected in William Clayton’s journal entry describing a general priesthood meeting, over which Heber C. Kimball presided, held on December 21, 1845:
“Elder John Taylor confirmed the saying that Joseph and Hyrum and himself were without their robes in the jail at Carthage, while Doctor Richards had his on, but corrected the idea that some had, that they had taken them off through fear. W. W. Phelps said Joseph told him one day about that time, that he had laid aside his garment on account of the hot weather.
“Elder [Heber C.] Kimball said word came to him and to all the Twelve about that time to lay aside their garments, and take them to pieces, or cut them up so that they could not be found.”
-William Clayton, Journal Three, published in An Intimate Chronicle: The Journals of William Clayton, George D. Smith, Ed. (Signature Books)
April 27th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Very cool site!
April 27th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
wow,
I’m 40yrs old (1967) and am a product of the lds church indian student placement program,
and everything I ever learned about incidents like this killing of Joe smith was that angry Non mormon mobs hated the poor mormons because they were so righteous and clean living,
I remember Personally, Personally!!, reading that story in theFriend (church magazine geared to kids) sometime in 1976 or 1977, Where joe had to have his leg?! operated on and was offered alcohol to drink, but he refused, because he was a Mormon and they don’t drink alcohol!!
what a crock of shhht that story was compared to these newer TRUER revelations about how the “prophet” joe really lived all his life,
and I learned throughout my young years in the church, that joe smith was taken captive in liberty jail and confined there,
We had images of hard prisonLife, because, wasn’t another “LIE” told to me, that during theNight,
one of theMean guards was harassing the prophet and his friends, speaking profanely about what they (theMob) would do to the mormon woman (rape, maiming, death) and finally after a while thePuppet joe had had enough and rebuked the guards!!
And they allegedly coward and quaked at his shackled feet!!
yeah right!!
“a Lamb to theSlaughter” doesn’t carry ANY weapons upon himself,
a Lamb to theSlaughter doesn’t shoot and KILL his enemies,
a Lamb to theSlaughter if he truly was a prophet and of God, would allow himself to be killed without fighting back, just like Christ was taken, beaten tried and crucified.
I love christ, I respect christ for HIS sacrifice, christ is my savior for being the real deal.
I don’t respect “Gunbattle Joe” for his alleged sacrifice and for his loss of (his) pathetic life,
he was and IS a fraud, he deserved what he got for being a money digger,
for lying to people and starting up a church to get gain,
for being polygamous and for being a pedophile too,
know this,
that I too am there in Spirit with theMob!!,
I too am there shooting ol Joe in the head and bashing his face in,
Other than that,
Cool site,
very cool,
thanks.
samuel l flyinghorse
former lds indian student placement program victim,
former RM,
former mormon,
anchorage, alaska
-AlaskaVillageTales-
April 29th, 2008 at 5:38 am
ok, must comment. “Product of Indian student placement program “victim”? in the most polite language I can muster…
Give Me a Break!! I’m Jewish and part Native American. I bet your family loves you (your replacement family) and it would break their hearts (if you haven’t broken their hearts over and over again already) to hear you, mr. alaska village tales, tell another “tale”. What did they do… torture you? did they feed you, give you shelter and love or lock you in the basement? As one native to another…you are piling it deep and wide, friend.
Samuel flyinghorse, I lived with several LDS families as a teen and I was already a convert to the Church (age 12). My “native” background didn’t do much for me. I love it, don’t get me wrong, but my grandma and most my fam were alcoholics and some other stereotypes/realities and aspects of being native that I was glad to leave behind me hanging on my family tree. I feel the Mormon Church offered me a ticket out of the “life” sort of speak. I broke the cycle of abuse, alcohol etc…(actually my mom, who is remarkable did with the help of the Lord) Whenever I find another native “singing the blues of the big bad mormon church” I know what that really means. You and I both know. The rules were a bit much? Did you violate the house rules of your family time and time again? What did your mormon family do to you that was so abusive and terrible? The indian replacement program has been a true blessing to many of my friends and their families. Please don’t show such ingratitude for such a beautiful, sincere, loving program. ANd one more thing Sammy, (that was my great grandpa’s name BTW) what would have you sincerely done on the rez during that time? were you REALLY taken away from the good life? Kitty
April 29th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Hey mormon kitty:
Does this look familiar?
That is the bio from your myspace page, located HERE.
I notice that you list “Italian/Greek/Jewish” as your heritage, but not “Native American”. With the picture of yourself that you have posted on your myspace page, that seems right–I am not seeing “Native American” there. Considering you just wrote a 14-line *lie* addressing samuel I flyinghorse, speaking to him “as one native to another”, while berating him for telling “tales”, I find this tremendously ironic.
So your “Native American” background happens to include a stereotypical (but “realistic”) mostly alcoholic family? Many of your friends and family spent time in the LDS “indian replacement program” and were blessed? Tell me, as an Italian/Greek/Jewish/”Native American” New Yorker, what tribe are you from? How do you know so much about what life on a “rez” is like, and what samuel would have done there?
Pretending that you are an American Indian makes it easy to refute samuel’s criticism of the Mormon Church, because you are afforded some kind of insider status that lets you get away with saying stuff that you have no business saying. In fact, you took the opportunity to spew bigotry about American Indians (mostly alcoholics, not civilized enough to follow house rules, better off in a Mormon home than with their own families, etc.).
All in all, that is a pretty disgusting show of cynicism and dishonesty in an attempt to defend the Mormon Church against a hurt and angry person. Way to represent for your peeps, there, mormon kitty.
April 29th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
awright samuel. i hear ya. but goddamn dude. you are there shooting him in the head? bashing his face in? thats out there man. i think ol joe did some crazy stuff, but still. not sure i would want to be the one shooting or bashing. he clearly deserved to not participate in a normal life after marrying children, i just dont see the value in wanting to be the person bashing and shooting.
miss kitty, so you had a good experience. that alone doesnt discredit the views, assessment or experience of other children. and to compare it to the state of affairs at the reservation is not clever or meaningful and certainly not enlightened. it sounds eerily familiar to racist suggestions that slavery was OK because it allowed black people to live in america and the villages of africa, then and now, are much worse. it also has that proud and smug tone that if it works for *you* then it can work for everyone.
October 16th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Recent scholarship shows that John Taylor sang a different tune than the one in the LDS hymnal on this occasion in Carthage jail:
http://www.mormontimes.com/studies_doctrine/church_history/?id=4102
The tune/melody has been uncovered and shown to be much more of an irish jig than a contemplative homily.
This recent scholarship definitely substantiates this representation of Joe and Taylor, lighthearted and in a “partying mood”, rather than the somber “going like a lamb to a slaughter” Mormons are taught to believe.
Great job on this artwork.
December 3rd, 2008 at 9:31 pm
I am sad and disappointed in this website, though that is simply my opinion from what judgment I had from looking at the title of this site. I was expecting great personal art pieces that show the restoration in the light that it brought to the world. Instead all I see are second-hand accounts and church history quotes strung together to cause confusion and strife (as we see in the comments of these pieces). I don’t know much, but if I remember right, back then wine simply referred to grape juice. Wine with alcohol was another matter. I am opening a can of worms to hate-mongers though. I cannot refute every “correction” you have made on this scene of history. But you cannot refute my knowledge from God that whatever happened here, it did not change a single sentence of the truth behind the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I do not know if I will ever make it back to this website, so say what damning accusations you have against me. With that I leave my knowledge, whole and from God, that Joseph Smith was directed through the Holy Ghost to restore the gospel of Jesus Christ. As Joseph Smith said, I know it. And I know that God knows it. He was a prophet. He brought hope back to a world of argument and denominations looking for truth, though they only ascertained small parts of the entire, beautiful picture of Christ’s teachings. I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is led today by Jesus Christ. I know that the modern prophet, Pres. Thomas S. Monson, leads this church under His direction. I know that the Book of Mormon, which Joseph Smith translated by the power of the Spirit, is a book that God prepared for everyone on this earth to understand what they are supposed to do with their lives, and how they are supposed to live. I know that God has a plan for our lives so we may truly return to His and Christ’s presence, and live having received our salvation. This website is wrong in leading you away from truth. If you go and ask, your loving Heavenly Father will let you know. But you need ask in faith, and in the correct form. So go and find out, find for yourself how to ask Heavenly Father in truth. I love you all, though I wish we did not have to fight against such pure truths that Heavenly Father has given us. Now let us go and do it right.
Collegeadam.wordpress.com
Mormon.org
With love,
Adam Dyal
December 5th, 2008 at 1:02 am
Fantastic artwork depicting the truth and reality about Joe smith’s final day on this planet. Karma caught up to him, and he reaped what he sowed. I would like to respond to Mr Adam Dyal’s recent blog and inaccuracies. First of all, I am an ex-convert mormon and lived in the epicenter of the Mormons in Orem, Utah and have personally experienced the hypocricy and nepotism in Happy Valley. I will be publishing a book in the next couple years “Sunday Mormon: A 13 year Internship”
I have spent hours and hours of endless research digging up the truth that the LDS church has been trying to hide from us for years. My ex-wife, who is a cultural mormon, always said to me that Jesus turned water to grape juice, not wine. Where did she and Mr Dyal come up with this theory? Jesus’s first miracle plainly says he turned water to wine, not grape juice!
Mr Dyal you said this, “I dont know much, but if I remember right, back then wine simply referred to grape juice.”
Lets examine that statement… “I dont know much”– Mr Dyal, you really dont know much about the truth of your religion, and it is sad you wont even investigate your own religion like a benevolent unbiased investigator or reporter.
“If I remember right.. wine referred to grape juice” I remember asking my ex wife WHO TOLD YOU THIS grape juice thing?…she never ever told me where she heard that, but it was the truth in her eyes. The truth? What is your definition of truth mr. Dyal? It says in the new teatament that Jesus turned water to wine…accept it. You supply no source of your own in your premise- and that statement of yours is not the truth whatsoever and simply is a fallacy– if you ever took a debate class before you will know what I am talking about! It is not evil to have a glass of wine, or beer in a responsible way. It is evil if you over excess it or get drunk (like anything else anything in excess is wrong in God’s eyes, including excess religion like the LDS church) and do evil things like driving drunk and killing people from too much grape juice, i mean wine.
Let’s examine a resource from the History of the church, Mr John Taylor, an eye witness to your prophet Joe’s death.
“Sometime after dinner we sent for some wine. It has been reported by some that this was taken as a sacrament. It was no such thing; our spirits were generally dull and heavy, and it was sent for to revive us….I believe we all drank of the wine, and gave some to one or two of the prison guards” John Taylor.
John Taylor, former president of the church said this!!! not some ex mormon. Mr Dyal, u sound like a cultural mormon and probably have no idea what a glass of wine does to you. But looking at the clues by Mr Taylor “it (the wine) was sent to revive us”
Alcohol does that, it revives many people who consume it (especially in smaller amounts). Grape juice doesn’t imply that at all, grape juice may quench ones thirst, but a far stretch to say plain ol’ grape juice will REVIVE us. Common sense. But you lack the empathy or understanding to ponder this or accept a lose in your argument.
What do you mean ‘wine with alcohol is another matter’, duh, it is the same matter in your argument, your circling your words and you are causing strife and confusion in your statement and would get docked many points in your argument if we were debating. I never heard of wine with no alcohol in it.. Over the course of 13 years, My ex wife would pour gallons of cough syrup in my kids tummy’s when sick. On the side of cough syrup bottle it read, 25% alcohol or 50 proof. She would get so pissed at me for having a single beer after work (only 3.2% alcohol) (maybe twice a year at most).. sound a bit hypocritical?
You mention the word KNOW at least 10 times. what is your definition of KNOW? presume? assume?
you claim…
“As Joseph Smith said, I know it.”
YOU DONT KNOW WHAT HE SAID, only what you have been spoonfed over your entire life. you dont want to know everything he said, like a collander, you accept only what you want to hear to confirm your biases with the church. you would make a horrible God or judge or juror… A God and/ or a judge will get all the facts first, then make a benevolent decision..you wont look at all the facts, instead you cop out with you intentional inefficiency….You say this… “Instead all I see are second-hand accounts and church history quotes strung together to cause confusion and strife”
you are wrong again in your truth.. By me spending an hour of my life writing this to you, all I am trying to do is give you knowledge, because many of us were in your same shoes, blinded.
Ponder this..
“People dont want to know the Truth, they only want their prejudices confirmed”
That aphorism is the truth, especially if you ever studied history and human behavior in a benevolent way.
Did you know Joe Smith once prophecized that people live on the moon? do you believe that as your truth? Did you know he slept with his 14 year old house servant while being married to Emma? Did you know he sent his friends on missions and while away slept with some of their wives?
Do you really know the truth mr Dyal. The fact is you dont… and some day… whether in this life or the afterlife you will KNOW the TRUTH about the real JOESEPH SMITH. What is even more sad is (if you have children) you are teaching your children that Joe was a true profit (profit is more truthful than prophet) and that makes you look real bad in God’s eyes.
Hypothetically, what if I am right, and you are wrong…ever consider how bad that is you are teaching your kids to idolize this false man, adulterer, blasphemer, thief…etc…
You probably think Joe Smith is in heaven now, if he is, i dont want to be with him. I have 6 kids myself and it breaks my heart up that they are being taught to follow this evil man as a prophet of God. I weap in tears seeing my oldest daughter (14 yrs)write a hate letter to her father filled with toxic feelings and her letter sounds just like yours..”I KNOW HE IS TRUE” (but she says I am stupid)… fills her letter as she dishonors her father (breaking a ten commandment) by cussing and calling me horrible names etc… she hates me because I dont love this false profit…The TRUTH is…Joe smith has ruined many many families, even to today.
I will pray for you Mr Dyal, that someday you might ponder for once and humble yourself, listen to your fallacies and do some benevolent unbiased research as millions of us ex mormons have done with sad disapointment as each Truth in history is unfolded. God Bless you. Check out “UTLM.org” totally awesome site.
peace
The Toast
February 4th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
So what if Joseph Smith had a gun; I learned this years ago while reading the Institute Manual, and the guns are on display in the Church History Museum. It is not like they are trying to cover this up. No matter what Joseph is still a Martyr because he “suffered death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion;” that is the definition of Martyr. I mean how easy would it have been for him to tell everyone that he made up everything, The Book of Mormon, Angels, etc., and they probably would have let him live! But he did not! And as for the wine, it was not part of “The Word of Wisdom” back then, only hard drinks like liquor were not allowed. It was not until more modern day revelation that Beer, and wines were included in the word of wisdom!
February 5th, 2009 at 2:30 am
Hey idiot chick who has no concept of genealogy, genetics (remember one of my doctor husband’s degrees is genetics and DNA research)…Here is a newsflash You are a bigot.. that’s for starters..
Also.. I am Jewish/Italian on my dad’s side
I am Jewish, Greek, Native (Iraqouis, from upstate NY my ancestor was Mary Wilson, a ggrandma who was born on the “res” but it was really the Iraquios confederacy at St. Regis Falls.. I even have an IHS card…)
You are the one living a lie Greg. I saw your stuff on the Gamofites (gay mormon blogs) does your wife know about it yet?? You are all over the net making up all sorts of odd lies and hiding the truth of who you really are. Don’t forget as a former journalist I have access to lotsa cool people search stuff.
Anyway.. Greg, Yes, I’m native american, Jewish Greek and Italian.. I’m sure I even have more nationalities than that, so does everyone the farther you go back in your genealogy. Also Gregster… I usually list the top 3 cause that is all there is room for.
You exmo’s show me time and time again you are:
prejudice and hateful
ugly inside
angry,sad and frustrated
unhappy in general
I am truly sorry for you and pray you will someday repent and come back to Church.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
How come it shows them smoking the pipes? There is no evidence that they smoked the tobacco, or even wanted it. It was the guard who sent for the tobacco, so they probably wanted it.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Richard,
That is an interesting idea. John Taylor’s account says that the guard requested wine; Joseph Smith gave the guard $1; the guard sent somebody to get wine, two pipes, and two papers of tobacco; and then the prisoners drank the wine. You are inferring from the fact that John Taylor is silent about who actually smoked the pipes that the guards are the ones who smoked, rather than the prisoners.
I do not make that inference because other elements of the story conflict with it. First, John Taylor was describing what the prisoners were doing, not the guards. With that in mind, mentioning the tobacco (particularly in that level of detail) is an irrelevancy unless it was something the prisoners were using. Second, it is unlikely that Taylor would have known about the pipes and tobacco (again, particularly in that level of detail) if it wasn’t brought into the cell with the wine, because the cell was upstairs, out of sight from where the guards would have used them. Finally, if we are going to read this as strictly as you seem to require, it doesn’t make sense for one guard to order two pipes unless he was ordering it for somebody else, and that “somebody else” was most likely the people who paid for it, and who he was sharing everything else with–the prisoners.
-JV
March 9th, 2009 at 12:21 am
I you ever want to go where God is, through this generation, you will have to go through Joseph Smith and what he brought forth to get there. It is written in the scriptures, that every knee shall bow and every tonque confess that Jesus is the Christ. AND, let it be written with a pen of steel - that every knee shall bow and every tonque confess that Joseph Smith was the Prophet He called in these last days to RESTORE His gospel in preparation for His Second Coming. And, if you do not want to find out for yousself whether what I said is true it will not matter, for truth WILL prevail.
August 22nd, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Your description of this event as a “gunfight” shows the level of your bias. If you don’t believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet, that is fine. But your attempt to revise history is silly. If 150 - 200 people showed up to your house and showered your room with bullets, no one would describe it as a gunfight if you used your weapon to defend yourself. Like Joseph, you wouldn’t stand a chance against those odds and it would be cold blooded murder. While you may not like Joseph Smith, it is beyond dispute (to objective people) that his murder was a horrifying act.
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Steve,
Thank you for commenting. We don’t think using the term “gunfight” denotes that the fight was fair, or that none of the participants were simply defending themselves. Your objection to the term appears to rely on this (in our opinion, mistaken) denotation. The opening sentence of the article describing this image is “Joseph and Hyrum Smith were murdered in a gunfight in the late afternoon of June 27, 1844.” The fact that the assailants illegally killed (i.e., “murdered”) Hyrum and Joseph is clearly stated, as is the fact that the murder occurred during a fight in which both the attackers and the defenders were using guns (i.e., a “gunfight”). The characterization of the event as both a “murder” and an “attack” is maintained throughout the article. If you feel the wording should be changed, please suggest something, as we are not sure what other facts (as opposed to opinions) you are looking for.
Best,
Admin
August 23rd, 2009 at 10:17 am
Mike said: “every knee shall bow and every tonque confess that Joseph Smith was the Prophet ”
I see why, as a believer in Joseph Smith, that you would say this. It’s part of his system. Joseph Smith stole several prophecies about Jesus, and applied them to himself.
Jesus said: “I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Light. No one comes to the Father but by Joseph Smith”. Right?
Please consider a serious Bible study, to get you out of the mess you are currently in.
September 14th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
I wasn’t expecting to have such a powerful experience when I went to Carthage Jail. I really didn’t expect to feel anything. I felt a tremendous peace, the Lord’s Spirit. I really felt like I was on sacred ground. I gained a real belief that Joseph Smith had been a prophet while I was there. I have to say that I was truly surprised at what I felt there. I’m also surprised that so many people writing could be so angry about the LDS church. Sometimes anger overtakes people and they can’t feel any more. The LDS church makes so much sense–the way they teach about life’s purpose, God’s love, the real Atonement…what a shame that people get caught up in anger and don’t stop to ponder without preconceived ideas. I feel sorry for people who don’t have this church in their lives and who are so angry. I wish I could give them my beliefs ,but it doesn’t work that way.
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:06 pm
suz on the mt you would be angry too if someone was deceiving your friends and family into hell disguising it as heaven by telling lies. The important thing is to not let our anger control us and cause us to do something sinful, like say burn down a newspaper press.
God bless you suz and may He open your eyes to the truth!
October 3rd, 2009 at 12:50 pm
wow speaking of anger how about some of mormon kitty’s comments
Hey idiot chick (THAT WAS A NICE THING TO SAY!) who has no concept of genealogy, genetics (remember one of my doctor husband’s degrees is genetics and DNA research)…(PRIDEFUL MUCH?) Here is a newsflash You are a bigot..(MORE OF THAT MORMON NICENESS) that’s for starters..
You exmo’s show me time and time again you are:
prejudice and hateful
ugly inside
angry,sad and frustrated
unhappy in general
(WOW TRY LOOKING IN THE MIRROR WITH THAT ONE!)
I am truly sorry for you and pray you will someday repent and come back to Church.
(COME BACK TO THE CHURCH? WHAT ABOUT JESUS)
MORMON KITTY IF YOU TRULY KNEW AND LOVED JESUS WHY WOULD YOU SAY SUCH HURTFUL THINGS?
October 21st, 2009 at 8:09 pm
[…] ultimate big-shot). The song was sung a couple of times, at Joseph’s request, on the day of his 1844 murder. It’s no surprise that he liked it, given its central message, which Joseph used to great […]
January 6th, 2010 at 11:04 am
As a member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ I must comment….. First John Taylor was a polygamist… He as well as Brigham Young and others, claimed Joseph Smith also was a polygamist, that Smith Practiced his polygamy in secret… Hang with me I’m coming to my point round about….
Joseph Smith’s Personal Clerks Betrayed Him
Most of the “good, faithful, and efficient clerks” were not good and faithful to Joseph. Some were polygamists themselves, and they rewrote Joseph’s history under Brigham’s direction to make it appear that Joseph was the author of polygamy.
The Mormon Church has published:
“Moreover, since the death of the Prophet Joseph, the history has been carefully revised under the strict inspection of President Brigham Young, and approved by him” (LDS History of the Church 1:v–vi).Click to continue reading
My comment is I’m skeptical of John Taylor’s testimony about Joseph, Hyrum and John drinking and smoking..
If Joseph Smith’s History was accurate to begin with, why would Brigham Young revise Joseph’s life story and his dealings in church history ” under strict inspection” of Brigham Young…
Either Joseph Smith was telling the truth originally, before his history was revised by Brigham Young, Or Joseph Smith was a dirty rotten liar and Brigham Young sought to make Joseph look better in the eyes of the world so as to build a church and religion which contradicts the teaching of the Bible, Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants…
I submit to you someone is tampering with history and with the facts. Much LDS teaching today is about the Book of Mormon, the Bible or D&C… Much teaching about what those scriptures say, but little actually direct study of the contents within those books of scripture…
Further Joseph and Hyrum didn’t wear temple garments… Why? Because they were not memebers of the new Church started by John Taylor, Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimble and others… This Church at the time was called the New Reformed Mormon Church…
In giving evidence there was split in the church during Joseph Smith’s lifetime I submit Joseph Smith own words…
In a reply to Henry Clay, May 13, 1844,
Times and Seasons, Vol. 5, p. 574, Joseph
Smith, Jr. states:
“Why Great God! to transport 200,000 people
through a vast prairie: over the Rocky Mountains,
to Oregon, a distance of nearly two
thousand miles, would cost more than four
millions!”
This comment not only shows there was a split in the church of which certain men were responsible, but there was a movement within the church to move the Whole Church Westward… For at the time according to Joseph Smith’s understanding there were 200,000 church members…
So while the Salt Lake Church today pretends Joseph Smith was their fearless prophet and leader, the real truth is there was a Conspiracy of men afoot… There is further evidence given in scripture by the prophet Isaiah, Isaiah 29 14-16…
14Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
15Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
God promises to do a great and marvelous work amongst the Children of men… But men would seek to ” turn the work upside down “! These men whoes works are in the dark, who say who seeth? Who knoweth us?
This is conspiracy against Joseph Smith and the original church he started as surely as it is against the Book of Mormon and the Lord’s great and marvelous work…
That is why I say someone is not telling the truth about LDS/RLDS Church history… Therefore I am frankly very skeptical of John Taylor’s stories that have been quoted as Church History…
I’m further skeptical because the Salt Lake Church claims to be the Church Joseph Smith started…
Yet the Courts of the United States of America disagree… Indeed they contradict Utah…
Court Rulings Joseph Smith Did Not Teach But Fought Polygamy
February 23, 1880, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, by its attorneys, appeared before the Court of Common Pleas, Lake County, Ohio, (see journal entry, February term, 1880) as plaintiff, asking for possession of the Kirtland Temple, an edifice erected during the early days of the church, and prior to the death of Joseph Smith the Martyr. The church in Utah, then presided over by John Taylor, was named with others as defendants.
Judge L. S. Sherman rendered the following decision:
“That the said Plaintiff, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a Religious Society, founded and organized upon the same doctrines and tenets, and having the same church organization, as the original Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, organized in 1830, by Joseph Smith, and was organized pursuant to the constitution, laws and usages of said original Church, and has branches located in Illinois, Ohio, and other States.
That the church in Utah, the Defendant of which John Taylor is president, has materially and largely departed from the faith, doctrines, laws, ordinances and usages of said original Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and has incorporated into its system of faith the doctrines of celestial marriage and a plurality of wives, and the doctrine of Adam-god worship, contrary to the laws and constitution of said original Church.
And the Court do further find that the Plaintiff, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, is the True and Lawful continuation of, and successor to the said original Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, organized in 1830, and is entitled in law to all its rights and property.”
In a case tried before Judge John F. Philips, in the Circuit Court of the United States, for the Western District of Missouri, Western Division, at Kansas City, Missouri.
In his decision, rendered March 16, 1894, Judge Philips said:
The Book of Mormon itself inveighed against the sin of polygamy…. Conformably to the Book of Mormon, the Book of Doctrine and Covenants expressly declared “that we believe that one man should have but one wife, and one woman but one husband.” And this declaration of the church on this subject reappeared in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, editions of 1846 and 1856. Its first appearance as a dogma of the church (the dogma of polygamy) was in the Utah Church in 1852.
Claim is made by the Utah Church that this doctrine is predicated of a revelation made to Joseph Smith in July, 1843. No such revelation was ever made public during the life of Joseph Smith, and under the law of the church it could not become an article of faith and belief until submitted to and adopted by the church. This was never done ….
(History of RLDS Church Vol 5 pp. 238-239)
Lastly because of my knowledge of scripture, I also doubt John Taylor because of Jeremiah 17:5-8
5Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
6For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
While it may seem coincidental to some, I believe most Salt Lake Mormons have missed the fact their Church fulfills this prophecy… For their World Headquarters does inhabit a Salt Land, in the desert in a place of wilderness…
7Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
8For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.
While I cannot always agree with the RLDS Church, I must again state they do fulfill the second half of Jeremiahs prophecy… With World Headquarters by a river, with offices on River Blvd…
While this may all seem like shameless taking advantage of opportunity to badmouth the Salt Lake Church, and if you choose can take it as such I’m sorry… I am really at heart trying to point out, LDS Church false history.
While in this day and age everyone has an angle, everyone has an agenda and this is OK! My point is not everyone has an honest angle or agenda… And if you will search the scriptures, read the history through, you will find there are two stories to the Joseph Smith Legend… Some say Smith Polygamized, Some say not… But if you will read and search, you will find there are men lying who are pretending to be your best friends… And they may not even know they are lying themselves!
January 9th, 2010 at 11:09 am
James,
With all due respect and sincerity the history of the Prophet’s polygamy is so well documented that it is irrefutable. I’m LDS and I’m not offended at all by your comments because I continue to acknowledge and accept that the “history” I once knew is not quite the actual history and for that I’m disappointed.
Although Richard Bushman (Rough Stone Rolling) and Todd Compton (In Sacred Loneliness) are members of the LDS Church (and so may have an LDS bias), their work has been very well received as a solid historical narrative which includes the Prophet’s polygamy and might I add further…polyandry.
I wish the facts were different, it has shaken me to the core but the facts are the facts. It’s hard to swallow I know, but the evidence is clear. Why would Hyrum and Joseph’s wives and those that assisted Joseph all conspire to lie and say Joseph practiced polygamy when he didn’t? - they wouldn’t do that. They have recorded the truth and we simply have to eat it.
As for how this relates to this pic with the wine and tobacco and no garments, etc……. I don’t know how accurate the pic is but I know that my image (that I used to have) of perfect human beings, reading the BofM, praying, receiving revelation, singing hymns, and waiting to be martyred has changed a bit…and thats okay….maybe now I don’t have to worry about trying to be so perfect.
February 5th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Didn’t the bible also discuss wine and drunkedness?
April 3rd, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Many LDS members in modern times do not know of any of these things… Yet there is obviously a level of bias in all writings. It’s sociology that we express our opinions, unintentionally and intentionally, in our actions. We can only grasp a firm knowledge of what took place back then by studying all of the journals and accounts available.
June 26th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
the only thing we can do is love and have compassion on the mormons. they are taught since the day they are 1 week old that they are children of god, and that they are part of the only true church on the face of the earth. it is sad, really, to see that these children have no chance from the very beginning.
compassion and love. it’s the only way to be.
June 26th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
now, if you are a convert.. that is a different story. you are just scared of death. scared of yourself. scared of your own insanity. joining the mormons is an easy way out. a cop out.
vote no on prop 8.